Steve Morris recently caught up with libertarian GOPer Murray Sabrin who is running for US Senate in this June’s primary. Years ago many GOPers were upset with Dr. Sabrin for his 1997 third party candidacy for governor against incumbent GOPer Christine “its my party too” Whitman and future governor Jim McGreevey. Dr. Sabrin almost cost Whitman the race. In retrospect, many of those same GOPers wish that Dr. Sabrin did manage to help defeat Whitman.

What is your claim to fame?

I don’t know if I have any claim to fame, it’s just that I’ve been a leader on these issues for over 30 years.  I’ve been on radio and TV and I’ve been heard by millions and millions of Americans after my book was published in the mid 90’s on how to downsize the Federal Government to address these issues of overspending, overtaxing and the money issue which of course is a big issue about how the dollar has been declining and over time that will make us poorer as a nation.

What would you say has been your best day in politics thus far?

Wining the Gloucester convention where I wasn’t expected to win and I won easily, 60-40 after we had a head on head debate with my opponent. When people hear us in a debate, my knowledge and expertise rise above anything else that people will hear.

What has been your worst day in politics thus far?

Losing in 2000 when I ran for U.S. Senate in the GOP primary.  I thought we had a good shot at winning, but we didn’t have the financial resources because three of my opponents, career politicians, outspent me 20-to-1.  It’s tough to overcome those odds, in terms of getting the message out on radio and on TV. 

What is your immediate political goal?

To get our message out, so people once they hear it they’ll embrace it, and win the Senate nomination easily in June. 

What is your secret to success?

The secret to my success is that people know that I am a principled individual.  I have been talking about these ideas since 1969 when I became a Republican.  That’s nearly 40 years of being consistent that limited government, that freedom, is the best way to organize society and the events over the last 5,000 years of human history point that out.  If people have freedom, have their rights respected, people will create wonderful things and the United States is an example of that.

What is your prediction for 2008?

If the Democrats have a very divisive convention and according to a recent poll that whoever doesn’t get the nomination, they may go to McCain. In other words Obama’s voters if Hillary wins the nomination, some of them will go to McCain and vice versa and this will be extremely helpful to McCain.  It’s a very fluid situation; we don’t know what’s going to happen economically, what’s going to happen overseas and this could have a dramatic outcome on what happens in November. This is about as fluid of a presidential election as I’ve seen in my lifetime. 

Who are your heroes?

My heroes?  Oh, there are so many of them!

One, who served on my dissertation committee, the late economist Murray Rothbard, who was one of the great philosophers of the twentieth century of limited government of free markets, and an outstanding historian-economist.  I learned so much from him and there are other people Ron Paul of course is a hero because of what he’s done as a member of congress to point out the weaknesses in domestic policy and why we need to have a humble foreign policy that would be in the best interests of the country. 

Thomas Jefferson is obviously a great hero because of writing the Declaration of Independence.  The people who crafted the Bill of Rights, I think that was a great achievement in how government and the citizen are supposed to interact and the government is supposed to protect rights, they don’t grant us rights, that is the natural rights position of the Declaration of Independence.

In addition, my father of course, surviving World War II by being resolute and steadfast, and having the means to fight in the war.  He was a partisan and had 231 people under his control, escaped death several times, and decided to come to America where his mother grew up in the 1890’s to 1910 or so.  That’s the connection we had with America, then after World War II because his first cousin was already here and his great aunt who raised his mother was living here. 

Henry Hazlet, one of the great economic journalists of the twentieth century, I learned a lot from his writings, Lew Rockwell at www.lewrockwell.com.  There are so many people, Tom Woods, Tom DiLorenzo; these are the great scholars of America today who point out the benefits of limited government and of freedom and liberty.  There are a whole host of people, probably hundreds of people I have met over my lifetime, whose works I’ve read. 

Judge Andrew Napolitano would be a hero of mine when we talk about how the constitution has to be adhered too by everyone including Republicans and Democrats alike in Federal government. There are people whose works I’ve read over the years that are too numerous to mention but these are some of the people that come to mind right away because I know them personally, I’ve interacted with them, they’ve been great supporters of mine, and they’ve helped me become the person I am today.

What are your favorite movies?

The Godfather, The Great Escape, Gladiator, The Italian Job (the remake), Hoosiers, The Producers, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World, the Jason Bourne Series, The Die Hard series, and the James Bond films (for the record, Professor Sabrin’s favorite James Bond is Sean Connery)

What has been your best moment on the campaign trail?

I have to go back to Gloucester, because here’s where people saw me one on one with an opponent and when I’m in that setting people can see that I have the expertise and knowledge to go to Washington and help turn things around.  You can’t go there with platitudes and sound bytes, you’ve got to go there with substance and analysis and commitment to these principles and I think I demonstrate that when I am in these debates.

How did you first become involved in politics?

In 1997 the Libertarian party called me to ask if I’d be interested in running for governor, and that was clearly not my life’s goal to run for political office, but when they explained what issues were percolating in the state, auto insurance, property taxes, and of course what turned out to be a prophetic situation, Whitman’s $2.8 billion bond issue to pay for the pensions. 

I said that it was bad public policy, and it opened up a can of worms of borrowing money for current expenditures and we’ve gone from $17 billion in debt to $34 billion of debt and if I had been elected governor the debt would be less than $17 billion today because we’d be paying down the debt. 

We wouldn’t have these unfunded liabilities because governors didn’t put the money in their budgets to pay for future promises so everything I predicted in 1997 has come true and worse because we haven’t adhered to fiscal responsibility. George Washington said it best, “it is irresponsible for one generation to pass it’s debt to another generation,” again that is why reading the founders is so enlightening because they really understood the nature of government, the nature of man and gave us a blueprint of how to organize ourselves peacefully to create freedom and prosperity and we’ve gone away from those principles.  Here we are with a $10 trillion national debt, $3 trillion budget $400 billion deficit, and $72 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities not because we followed the Founding Father’s principles but because we abandoned them.

Why are you a Republican?

After seeing the Great Society program, I became a Republican in 1969 because I saw the Democrat’s ideas were bankrupt.  I realized at age 22, without having much economics training, that these programs were not working. I had been reading about what the impact of all of this spending would be and I concluded after reading what all of these critics of the Great Society had to say that we needed to change course, and of course we haven’t, and that’s why we’re in the mess that we are today.  

Where do you see your party in 10 years?

If I am elected it will be a strong Republican Party statewide and nationwide because I will be promoting the principles that attracted me to the Republican Party in the first place.  We think that the way to win elections is to be “Democrat-Lite,” and it hasn’t worked.  We haven’t won the past six statewide elections; we have to offer the people of New Jersey a choice and contrast clearly with the Democrats.  The Democrats want big government they want more taxes. 

We have to offer them what our principles are, less government, less taxes, and more decision making at the individual level at the family level at the business level. That is why I became a Republican because of the notion of freedom.  If we believe in freedom, if we believe in our own capacity to lead our lives, then we are Republicans. If you believe in the redistribution of income you become a Democrat, and that does not work, it is a bankrupt philosophy. 

How does Andy Unanue’s entry into the race affect your campaign?

When the Republican voters have the opportunity to compare conservative leader Murray Sabrin to the playboy, Unanue, the conservative leader will be headed to the U.S. Senate to fight for New Jersey taxpayers and the playboy will be headed back to the nightclubs. 

Could you please tell us more about your "Constitutional Republicans protecting the Liberty Platform" slate of candidates running in the June primary?

We have a slate of candidates in counties where we didn’t win the county line because I’m part of a movement; I’ve been part of this movement for more than three decades on constitutional government, the liberty issues, freedom issues, and the limited government issues.  People are joining us because they realize that this is the best way to make America free and prosperous.  All the other methods, that we’ve tried, big government and semi-big government haven’t worked.  That’s why we have a financial mess on our hands. Everybody knows it, who is objective, who looks at the data. Everyone’s concerned about the economic future, everybody’s concerned about their own economic security and all we hear is more spending, more “government stimulation.”  We don’t need government stimulation; all we need is to lower tax rates as much as possible so the government can have enough revenue to pay for the legitimate functions of government.  The point is this is about rebuilding the party.  We have to show a clear contrast with the democrats. We can’t be “Democrat-Lite” and expect to win.  We haven’t won since 1997 doing it that way.  We are attempting to reinvigorate the Republican Party, and we’ll rebuild the Republican Party by recruiting candidates who are going to stand up for conservative principles and show a clear contrast with the Democrats.